Discussions around evolutions in football over the last few decades tend to focus on off-field aspects: finance, media & branding and maybe enough credit has not been given to positive developments & subtle changes in approach on the actual field of play...(?)
Circumstances have meant that the only matches I have attended in recent months have been at local - to me -clubs. I grew up in an era where the football mantra was "Win it, launch it & chase after it", so I was pleasantly surprised to note that even at County level, players were displaying technical ability & determined to play thoughtful, constructive football.
It also made me reflect on whether I have an out-dated & ill-informed response to the role of the football academy. I recall a pub discussion with Gee Evans - yes, we have actually shared quality time together - where I agreed with his expressed opinion that "the trouble is that it is all technical stuff they teach nowadays, no good if you haven't learned how to battle for the ball in the first place". I always felt he was a bit of a dinosaur, I am a bit surprised ( and ashamed) to discover I am too...!
Thad the FA coaching approach is very much what I believe England and the Gareth Southgate approach is. To have seen Shamir Fenelon play football at youth level then move into professional football and play for the club is quite remarkable. Not sure how much Gee Evans buys into the FA 4 corner model (technical, psychological, physical, social) from what you are saying then Thad. Im sure the model has always existed, just perhaps in a less formulised way.
I know what you mean Thad but the thing that has changed the way we play is the "touch 'em and they fall over" attitude that the lawmakers have allowed players to 'get away with' over the last twenty years.
When I, and no doubt you, played my own team mates would have laughed in my face if I had fallen over the way players do now. The frontal sliding tackle is pretty much a yellow card offence, regardless of how high the tacklers foot is. Man and ball is an alien concept and tackles from behind are treated with contempt by everyone playing and reporting on games.
This change, more than any other, has allowed players to turn away from trouble (which now prevents a defender tackling) and win free kick after free kick for negligible contact. Get stuck in has been replaced by setting traps and playing the ball into channels replaced by playing along the back line.
It's often easier on the eye but is it better? Not so sure. Somehow we have to allow tackling and, imho, the ball played between a full back and centre back is still one of the best ways to advance up the pitch.
Jim T-Rex Baker
Edit. I forgot to add that the best players have always been comfortable receiving the ball in tight spots and (then and now) couple that with the strength to withstand a clumsy tackle
I think there is still a place for battling for the ball and 'earning the right to play' - a phrase I heard quoted on Talk Sport only this morning. Nothing personal against the guy, but look at the time we had Alex Davey on loan from Chelsea. I'm sure that technically he was very good and probably showed up well in one touch training stuff and academy games. It was a different story when he had to face the likes of Ikpeazu and Akinfenwa. The Chelsea pedigree counted for nothing then as they simply brushed him aside, although to be fair they were doing that to better players than him. Plus, playing technical stuff is great while the pitches are in decent nick early in the season but I wonder what the top pros would make of some of the rutted glue pots we played on in the Crawley League! :-) I think the trick is not to rely solely on playing out from the back as HK was trying to do with us, as it becomes too predictable. There is still room for the long ball as long as it isn't just aimlessly handing it back to the opposition.
I’m in my twenties so I have no memory of football before 2000 or the Premier League. I have to say the quality of football pre 2000 I have seen clips of looks absolutely terrible to me. Although I think it’s clear that technical ability has improved at all levels of football a lot in the last 20 years, the constant diving and brandishing of cards for a slide tackle has really taken away a lot of the gains in technical ability and what we have now is a more sterile version of the game, that although more pleasant on the eye is still at times frustrating and boring to watch. Was a refreshing change to see in the Euros the referees were more relaxed around tackles and they have improved a bit in the Prem this season, but it’s still gone from one extreme to the other with literal assaults on the field to not being able to touch a player. P.s let an attacker challenge the keeper for the ball in the air. Pathetic and embarrassing that keepers can now cover their incompetence these days by claiming a foul every time an attacker is near him. Served that clown Blondy right in the Gillingham for dropping the ball. Geezer couldn’t catch a cold!
I think there is still a place for battling for the ball and 'earning the right to play' - a phrase I heard quoted on Talk Sport only this morning. Nothing personal against the guy, but look at the time we had Alex Davey on loan from Chelsea. I'm sure that technically he was very good and probably showed up well in one touch training stuff and academy games. It was a different story when he had to face the likes of Ikpeazu and Akinfenwa.
Indeed. And when the PL U23 teams play in the JPT they often get tonked.
Thinking out loud, I would query if a few of us on the Jurassic fringe have missed a major change in the modern approach...?
That is my poncey way of expressing that our concept of "earning the right to play" involves a man on man ball winning tackle. Of course there will always be a need & a place for that... ...but modern football culture involves a coordinated team dynamic that seeks to win possession without necessarily winning the ball... ...with a focus on the organised press, squeezing the play, isolating individuals, keeping a shape, maintaining a line... essentially reducing the oppositions options to try & catch them out of position.
It may not stir the blood in the same way that the sight of Sasha Opinel sliding in with two sets of studs showing did, but it requires a lot more intelligence, communication & - yes - skill...!
Thad, your statement in bold is the same as mine regarding "setting traps" I just used fewer words. I do take issue with "winning possession without necessarily winning the ball...". Winning possession IS winning the ball but I will agree your point that you can control the game without having the ball. Just make the opposition play the ball along their back line while setting a trap.
I've never been coached in these systems so I would love to see how they plan to go about it and that way understand when the team is not performing in the proper way and figure out methods to beat the trap.
Thad, your statement in bold is the same as mine regarding "setting traps" I just used fewer words. I do take issue with "winning possession without necessarily winning the ball...". Winning possession IS winning the ball but I will agree your point that you can control the game without having the ball. Just make the opposition play the ball along their back line while setting a trap.
I've never been coached in these systems so I would love to see how they plan to go about it and that way understand when the team is not performing in the proper way and figure out methods to beat the trap.
Jim "Velociraptor" Baker
Strangely enough Jim, I thought you had made such an excellent point that I wanted to take one stage further...
...basically, accepting your view that any physical contact is now considered a risk too far, I wanted to highlight that the modern alternative is not simply about - what us dinosaurs are familiar with - the bloke with the ball & the fella facing him... but a far more intricate & multifaceted team process.
Apologies if that is what you were describing all along with the phrase "setting traps"... you were being far too concise for an old windbag like me...!
I just wish I could get someone to explain it to me. I get the idea that when one goes they all go and obviously the first one closes down the man with the ball but where does everyone else go?
Thinking out loud, I would query if a few of us on the Jurassic fringe have missed a major change in the modern approach...?
That is my poncey way of expressing that our concept of "earning the right to play" involves a man on man ball winning tackle. Of course there will always be a need & a place for that... ...but modern football culture involves a coordinated team dynamic that seeks to win possession without necessarily winning the ball... ...with a focus on the organised press, squeezing the play, isolating individuals, keeping a shape, maintaining a line... essentially reducing the oppositions options to try & catch them out of position.
It may not stir the blood in the same way that the sight of Sasha Opinel sliding in with two sets of studs showing did, but it requires a lot more intelligence, communication & - yes - skill...!
Thad, a player you may find interesting who until recently I didn’t understand the point of is Sergio Busquets. Now this is a player that if he was born 15 or 20 years earlier would not have had a career at the top level let alone a professional football. He is the perfect example of defensive midfielder that plays through technical and tactical ability rather than physical attributes of strength and power and his tackling skills are at best poor, his heading skills are very basic at best too. There is no way he would have fitted into pre 2000 football of up and at ‘em. If you look at his game, which I enjoy watching clips of on YouTube, you can see how his spacial awareness and positioning allow him to as you say set traps and think 2 or 3 moves ahead and be in the right place to intercept the ball or close down the player or even sometimes make the tackle if really needed, but ideally there is no need to tackle as he has forced the mistake. Sometimes he is simply there to be available for a pass when his teammate wins the ball. This is part of the modern art of pressing and defensive play that has changed the game.
Conversely, to beat the modern press Busquets is very calm under pressure and has great close control and is able to either do a piece of skill to get past the player or draw the opponent in and pass the ball quickly. There are various other intricacies to his game as well. A very fascinating player in my view, a player who appears to be pointless, but does lots of simple things well.
Thinking out loud, I would query if a few of us on the Jurassic fringe have missed a major change in the modern approach...?
That is my poncey way of expressing that our concept of "earning the right to play" involves a man on man ball winning tackle. Of course there will always be a need & a place for that... ...but modern football culture involves a coordinated team dynamic that seeks to win possession without necessarily winning the ball... ...with a focus on the organised press, squeezing the play, isolating individuals, keeping a shape, maintaining a line... essentially reducing the oppositions options to try & catch them out of position.
It may not stir the blood in the same way that the sight of Sasha Opinel sliding in with two sets of studs showing did, but it requires a lot more intelligence, communication & - yes - skill...!
Thad, a player you may find interesting who until recently I didn’t understand the point of is Sergio Busquets. Now this is a player that if he was born 15 or 20 years earlier would not have had a career at the top level let alone a professional football. He is the perfect example of defensive midfielder that plays through technical and tactical ability rather than physical attributes of strength and power and his tackling skills are at best poor, his heading skills are very basic at best too. There is no way he would have fitted into pre 2000 football of up and at ‘em. If you look at his game, which I enjoy watching clips of on YouTube, you can see how his spacial awareness and positioning allow him to as you say set traps and think 2 or 3 moves ahead and be in the right place to intercept the ball or close down the player or even sometimes make the tackle if really needed, but ideally there is no need to tackle as he has forced the mistake. Sometimes he is simply there to be available for a pass when his teammate wins the ball. This is part of the modern art of pressing and defensive play that has changed the game.
Conversely, to beat the modern press Busquets is very calm under pressure and has great close control and is able to either do a piece of skill to get past the player or draw the opponent in and pass the ball quickly. There are various other intricacies to his game as well. A very fascinating player in my view, a player who appears to be pointless, but does lots of simple things well.
Blimey Alex, spot on, he is a player I have admired for a long time now with the phrase: "he does bugger all, but he does it brilliantly".
I first saw him at the Nou Camp about a dozen years back. In fact, it took me a while to realise the intelligence, simplicity & economy of his play was pivotal to the team dynamic, at first I thought it was too slow & a bit reckless, as it ran counter to some of the basics that I had grown up with, where the emphasis was always about "pace & space".
Alex, You may be surprised to know that there was a time before Sky invented football, where youngsters had it drummed into them that: - You never pass square across your own area - You never give the ball to a team mate who is being marked and if you broke the code there were dire consequences - if it was not punished on the field, then it definitely would be by your own team...!
Thad, a player you may find interesting who until recently I didn’t understand the point of is Sergio Busquets. Now this is a player that if he was born 15 or 20 years earlier would not have had a career at the top level let alone a professional football. He is the perfect example of defensive midfielder that plays through technical and tactical ability rather than physical attributes of strength and power and his tackling skills are at best poor, his heading skills are very basic at best too. There is no way he would have fitted into pre 2000 football of up and at ‘em. If you look at his game, which I enjoy watching clips of on YouTube, you can see how his spacial awareness and positioning allow him to as you say set traps and think 2 or 3 moves ahead and be in the right place to intercept the ball or close down the player or even sometimes make the tackle if really needed, but ideally there is no need to tackle as he has forced the mistake. Sometimes he is simply there to be available for a pass when his teammate wins the ball. This is part of the modern art of pressing and defensive play that has changed the game.
Conversely, to beat the modern press Busquets is very calm under pressure and has great close control and is able to either do a piece of skill to get past the player or draw the opponent in and pass the ball quickly. There are various other intricacies to his game as well. A very fascinating player in my view, a player who appears to be pointless, but does lots of simple things well.
Blimey Alex, spot on, he is a player I have admired for a long time now with the phrase: "he does bugger all, but he does it brilliantly".
I first saw him at the Nou Camp about a dozen years back. In fact, it took me a while to realise the intelligence, simplicity & economy of his play was pivotal to the team dynamic, at first I thought it was too slow & a bit reckless, as it ran counter to some of the basics that I had grown up with, where the emphasis was always about "pace & space".
Alex, You may be surprised to know that there was a time before Sky invented football, where youngsters had it drummed into them that: - You never pass square across your own area - You never give the ball to a team mate who is being marked and if you broke the code there were dire consequences - if it was not punished on the field, then it definitely would be by your own team...!
I think this passing culture on really came in around the mid to late 2000s. If you watch football clips from the early 2000s you can see that there wasn’t much passing from the back and a lot of teams played 4-4-2. I remember as a kid in the 2000s I was taught when playing football to never pass the ball across your own area and to always play the way you are facing. My generation has both ruined and improved the way football is played!
I think this passing culture on really came in around the mid to late 2000s. If you watch football clips from the early 2000s you can see that there wasn’t much passing from the back and a lot of teams played 4-4-2. I remember as a kid in the 2000s I was taught when playing football to never pass the ball across your own area and to always play the way you are facing. My generation has both ruined and improved the way football is played!
In the words of Charles Darwin "Hey, hey we're the monkeys"... it is simply evolution Alex... I predict that sometime fairly soon - in response to the over-complicated set-ups currently deployed when taking & repelling free-kicks in & around the area... a team will tap the ball square & someone will successfully blast it through the gap between those in the wall & the others waiting for a cross floated to the far post.. just wait & see..!