Ok yes good one Paul Soppy Git great office banter! You get found out to be a bit of a loser and pull the old it was an office joke card. You got any more classic jokes to tell, you must be the fun one at the party. Can I cal you Paul or is it David Brent? Ho ho ho
Call me whatever you like it really doesn't bother me
Yes I used to be the life and soul of the party but with age comes wisdom baby tiger
You also learn to respect your elders I.e. any of us your having a pop at
I have clearly got under your skin as your insults are getting worse but at least it's been fun
P.s I wish I could grow a beard like David brent though
Come on David why are you hiding behind a fake name? Get your guitar out “free love on the free love freeway”
I have never claimed any expert football knowledge - in fact, i have repeatedly stated the bloody obvious - although i do practise the heresy of recognising the existence of Matthaus, Busquets, Makelele and a few other "holding" midfield players...!
This is comedy or I might have just fallen hook, line and sinker and the joke is on me! Matthaus- you mean that famous box to box midfielder that moved to defence to prolong his career once he could no longer do the box to box role. Backing up exactly what I stated! At 5ft 9 shorter than Vincelot. I’d love to see where I said there is no such thing as a holding midfielder??? But whoever said that RM was capable of playing there? Yes the forum genius Mr Thad. The one that said only a wally would play a 5ft 10 centre back, then uses a 5ft 9 example!!!
I guess you have not heard of the sweeper/libero role either...? You do not have to be a forum genius to know that is where LM ended up, he was never matched up against 6'6" Centre-Forwards, only a Wally would even consider that.
He had a very long career & was an excellent b2b midfielder, but found most of his success in a "holding" role... Y'know, that role that you do not believe exists...!
No mention of Busquets or Makelele, i suppose they only exist in my imagination too...?
This is comedy or I might have just fallen hook, line and sinker and the joke is on me! Matthaus- you mean that famous box to box midfielder that moved to defence to prolong his career once he could no longer do the box to box role. Backing up exactly what I stated! At 5ft 9 shorter than Vincelot. I’d love to see where I said there is no such thing as a holding midfielder??? But whoever said that RM was capable of playing there? Yes the forum genius Mr Thad. The one that said only a wally would play a 5ft 10 centre back, then uses a 5ft 9 example!!!
I guess you have not heard of the sweeper/libero role either...? You do not have to be a forum genius to know that is where LM ended up, he was never matched up against 6'6" Centre-Forwards, only a Wally would even consider that.
He had a very long career & was an excellent b2b midfielder, but found most of his success in a "holding" role... Y'know, that role that you do not believe exists...!
No mention of Busquets or Makelele, i suppose they only exist in my imagination too...?
That moment you realise you’ve mugged yourself off and still try and argue lol! I couldn’t have proven my point any better than using LM as an example and you did it for me! Now I know for sure you was on a wind up!
I guess you have not heard of the sweeper/libero role either...? You do not have to be a forum genius to know that is where LM ended up, he was never matched up against 6'6" Centre-Forwards, only a Wally would even consider that.
He had a very long career & was an excellent b2b midfielder, but found most of his success in a "holding" role... Y'know, that role that you do not believe exists...!
No mention of Busquets or Makelele, i suppose they only exist in my imagination too...?
That moment you realise you’ve mugged yourself off and still try and argue lol! I couldn’t have proven my point any better than using LM as an example and you did it for me! Now I know for sure you was on a wind up!
Well, seeing as you were questioning my football knowledge, i thought I had better stick to the 3 best examples from the last 25 years, I'd say Matthaus, Busquets & Makelele fitted the criteria...
...who would you have chosen then? Simeone, Carrack...? Or do you still not recognise the existence of the "holding", "shielding", "sitting" midfield role...?
The “football experts” on here naming holding midfielders is so funny. I’ve suggested maybe Vincelot is not capable of getting around the pitch like he used to as a midfielder which is possibly why he got moved back to defence. You are now naming some of the most athletic midfielders - Kante! Makélélé! Can someone please quote me where I said there is no such position as a holding midfielder? I said if he’s legs have gone then midfield isn’t the position for him. You do realise Kante and Makélélé are famous for their work rate?? Guess what Vincelot has left and managed 55mins before getting injured so your theory there worked well.
Keith Keane is a great example for us Simon and the lad Smith in our Conference South days too.
Tiger, when i get a chance later, i will provide a definitive response. My first duty is to a ten-month-old who also desperately wants my attention, but goes about it with far more charm.
In the meantime, could you please square the circle from our original exchange, wherein you accuse me of pretending to know more than Gaby, yet according to your own testimony, Gaby did not have a decision making role in the matter...?
The “football experts” on here naming holding midfielders is so funny. I’ve suggested maybe Vincelot is not capable of getting around the pitch like he used to as a midfielder which is possibly why he got moved back to defence. You are now naming some of the most athletic midfielders - Kante! Makélélé! Can someone please quote me where I said there is no such position as a holding midfielder? I said if he’s legs have gone then midfield isn’t the position for him. You do realise Kante and Makélélé are famous for their work rate?? Guess what Vincelot has left and managed 55mins before getting injured so your theory there worked well.
I would hardly call Makelele athletic. Nor Keith Keane. They both played the defensive midfielder role well, you don't need to move more than 30 metres either way. Just use your head.
Either way, how did we come to sign Vincelot on a 2 year deal only to pay him off 6 months later? Was it Selim? HK? Konyar?
Keith Keane is a great example for us Simon and the lad Smith in our Conference South days too.
Tiger, when i get a chance later, i will provide a definitive response. My first duty is to a ten-month-old who also desperately wants my attention, but goes about it with far more charm.
In the meantime, could you please square the circle from our original exchange, wherein you accuse me of pretending to know more than Gaby, yet according to your own testimony, Gaby did not have a decision making role in the matter...?
👍as a father kids come first. Anyway back to my original post stating Vincelot wasnt a great signing - I stand my view that he wasn’t a great signing and we’ve done well to offload him especially considering he’s only played 55 mins since. I’ve also stated that there might be factors why it wasn’t suitable for him to operate as a midfielder anymore. RM was a combative workhorse that ran and tackled anything that moved (a good lower league one at that). If he’s struggling to get around the pitch, could someone explain what qualities he has that makes him suited to the role of anchoring the midfield and only having to move a few yards?
The “football experts” on here naming holding midfielders is so funny. I’ve suggested maybe Vincelot is not capable of getting around the pitch like he used to as a midfielder which is possibly why he got moved back to defence. You are now naming some of the most athletic midfielders - Kante! Makélélé! Can someone please quote me where I said there is no such position as a holding midfielder? I said if he’s legs have gone then midfield isn’t the position for him. You do realise Kante and Makélélé are famous for their work rate?? Guess what Vincelot has left and managed 55mins before getting injured so your theory there worked well.
I would hardly call Makelele athletic. Nor Keith Keane. They both played the defensive midfielder role well, you don't need to move more than 30 metres either way. Just use your head.
Either way, how did we come to sign Vincelot on a 2 year deal only to pay him off 6 months later? Was it Selim? HK? Konyar?
I’m not sure you can play midfield for RealMadrid, Chelsea and France in the modern game and not be athletic.
Mr Thad (gone a bit quiet now he’s made himself look a bit silly naming legends), when you dig out my quotes denying the existence of any defensive midfielders can you quote your own gems such as only a wally and what sort of fool plays a 5ft 10 centre back? Because if we are going to play silly name legends that are nothing like Crawley players, does that make the managers of Bobby Moore, mascherano, De Boer, Baresi, Cannavaro, Koeman, Puyol or even Beckenbauer who were around 5ft 10 (some shorter no doubt) wallys? Or maybe they never had to mark big strikers?
Mr Thad (gone a bit quiet now he’s made himself look a bit silly naming legends), when you dig out my quotes denying the existence of any defensive midfielders can you quote your own gems such as only a wally and what sort of fool plays a 5ft 10 centre back? Because if we are going to play silly name legends that are nothing like Crawley players, does that make the managers of Bobby Moore, mascherano, De Boer, Baresi, Cannavaro, Koeman, Puyol or even Beckenbauer who were around 5ft 10 (some shorter no doubt) wallys? Or maybe they never had to mark big strikers?
Or maybe they never had to mark big strikers when they were not at full fitness...?
We both agree on RVs suspect fitness, we both agree that he did not look comfortable at CB, we were both - apparently - screaming for him to be given a run-out in midfield, we even both agree that it was good to move him on...
...we are also both prepared to accept that someone* at the club concluded that he should not play in a midfield role**...
...the point at which we diverge is that i believe that, if he is not regarded as suitable for a midfield role** - which in any case we needed someone to play in*** - then he should NEVER be considered for the position of CB...!
That view is not an attempt to demonstrate my football genius or any inside knowledge... It is simply a pragmatic step based on common sense & damage-limitation. I really do not see it as in any way contentious & cannot understand why anyone else would (without reference to their psychological welfare)..?
***what the team were lacking. At the time both DB & JM were not being considered for selection & with permutations of Payne-Morais-Randall often over-playing, we would regularly lose the ball & get done by one pass. The need for a player to operate in a shielding role was self-evident. For completeness: Bonzo was purchased into the season & Dallison arrived in the window, Connolly left at the end of Jan.
**midfield role. There is no need to dig up quotes (and i don't have time) Mr. Tiger, you did not think RV should be in the "engine room", neither did I... the difference is that i felt he could essentially replicate the duties he does at CB, but further forward & without having to mark a big lump of a L2 forward. I saw that as reducing the possibility of a crucial error & the physical strain on the player.
You appear to think - correct me if i am wrong - that it would increase the physical load...?
Your stated view of a midfielder appears to me, to lack scope for an exclusive "holding", "shielding" or "sitting" role... I quoted great examples - including a player (Makelele) who has had the role linked to his name in pundit parlance - although you found Lothar Matthaus an amusing choice because over two decades, he moved backwards from being a powerhouse runner hitting 35 yard thunderbolts, to a deep-lying playmaker, to a world-class defensive screen & finally to play as sweeper.
And it is a matter of public record that he was a sweeper, as were a few others you have listed herein - essentially it is that def-mid role that someone recently started a thread to admit they had never heard of - but behind, rather than in front of the CB...!
*so who made the decisions...? Apparently i am wrong to name HK or Cioffi... Yet at the same time i am accused of pretending to know more than Cioffi, i am still waiting for that circle to squared...?
Lastly: Not sure why you felt the desperate need to flirt for attention from me in this thread Tiger...? But i am sure that a few old forumites were amused at you referring to RR&R & myself as friends...!!!!
Time is now pressing, so i hope that covers everything.