If we hire rooky managers (Kewell, Drummy, Yems, Young, Etherington) and we don't give them a chance to prove themselves then everybody is at fault including the supporters who screamed for change and when they got it aren't happy
Kewell left of his own accord. I don't recall any fans calling for Drummy to be sacked. The fans actually wanted Yems, he was doing well, Wagmi sacked him. Young was doing well, had the players playing for him, got the fans on board....Wagmi sacked him. Etherington has had 3 games, the fans aren't calling for his head, we can all see the problems are at board level. So please stop constantly blaming the fans. Yes, most wanted Betsy out but with good reason. He was a total disaster. An academy U23 coach with no managerial experience was not what we needed. So guess what Galley/Wagmi did? They hired another one! Now we are selling our best players to our L2 relegation rivals....its not us not giving Etherington a chance to prove himself...it's Wagmi.
Out of interest how much time do you think ME needs as we are quickly running out of it
I hope that we have targeted new signings and these signings are completed quickly. We have known that Tom Nichols would be leaving for a few weeks and we should have prepared for this. Yes Time is running out but having appointed Matt Etherington just before the transfer window opens we have no option but to stick with him and get behind the team. Another Manager change in say eight weeks time would be a last ditch effort to get points on the board.
so how much time does ME need in your opinion?
Last Edit: Dec 28, 2022 16:52:04 GMT by Grumpy Git
Having watched Matthew Etherington's interviews, I get the impression that he's beginning to regret taking the job on. It would not surprise me if he quits the job sooner than later.
You could well be right John. People ask why we get rookie managers but what self-respecting experienced lower league manager would take a job where he was told that he couldn't pick one of our better players because he was due to be sold in a month's time? If this is happening, perhaps the man who is responsible for that ought to come out and face the media after a piss poor performance instead of ME? I know Nichols can be frustratingly inconsistent but on his day he is one of the best footballers in the lower leagues and to sell him to one of our relegation rivals beggars belief unless there are plans to bring in players with the ability to get us out of trouble;
If we hire rooky managers (Kewell, Drummy, Yems, Young, Etherington) and we don't give them a chance to prove themselves then everybody is at fault including the supporters who screamed for change and when they got it aren't happy
Kewell left of his own accord. I don't recall any fans calling for Drummy to be sacked. The fans actually wanted Yems, he was doing well, Wagmi sacked him. Young was doing well, had the players playing for him, got the fans on board....Wagmi sacked him. Etherington has had 3 games, the fans aren't calling for his head, we can all see the problems are at board level. So please stop constantly blaming the fans. Yes, most wanted Betsy out but with good reason. He was a total disaster. An academy U23 coach with no managerial experience was not what we needed. So guess what Galley/Wagmi did? They hired another one! Now we are selling our best players to our L2 relegation rivals....its not us not giving Etherington a chance to prove himself...it's Wagmi.
All credit to you Northgate and the fans who turned up on boxing day for a game which sounds like a remake of the Hartlepool performance. I know I bang on a bit but when Etherington comments in his interview on the negativity of the fans in only his third game I do wonder why everybody is so impatient as they were with Betsy. I wasn't there as you know, so am not sure to what ME was referring but dispiriting whatever it was. From his interview, its clear he is what's on the tin - a rookie with no experience. He needs to be allowed time to make his mark now he is here and develop himself and the team. When he said he had over delegated in his interview, that's a classic indication of somebody who maybe found it easier to rely on others rather than force himself into a situation. Given a chance, I hope he will have the necessary skills to make his mark and a difference - only time will tell and I hope the supporters give him that time.
Kewell left of his own accord. I don't recall any fans calling for Drummy to be sacked. The fans actually wanted Yems, he was doing well, Wagmi sacked him. Young was doing well, had the players playing for him, got the fans on board....Wagmi sacked him. Etherington has had 3 games, the fans aren't calling for his head, we can all see the problems are at board level. So please stop constantly blaming the fans. Yes, most wanted Betsy out but with good reason. He was a total disaster. An academy U23 coach with no managerial experience was not what we needed. So guess what Galley/Wagmi did? They hired another one! Now we are selling our best players to our L2 relegation rivals....its not us not giving Etherington a chance to prove himself...it's Wagmi.
All credit to you Northgate and the fans who turned up on boxing day for a game which sounds like a remake of the Hartlepool performance. I know I bang on a bit but when Etherington comments in his interview on the negativity of the fans in only his third game I do wonder why everybody is so impatient as they were with Betsy. I wasn't there as you know, so am not sure to what ME was referring but dispiriting whatever it was. From his interview, its clear he is what's on the tin - a rookie with no experience. He needs to be allowed time to make his mark now he is here and develop himself and the team. When he said he had over delegated in his interview, that's a classic indication of somebody who maybe found it easier to rely on others rather than force himself into a situation. Given a chance, I hope he will have the necessary skills to make his mark and a difference - only time will tell and I hope the supporters give him that time.
I think all the supporters are behind ME and want him to succeed. Its the owners that fans are fed up with. The negativity is aimed at them and Galley. Not Etherington. Sutton was like a warmer version of the Hartlepool game.
Kewell left of his own accord. I don't recall any fans calling for Drummy to be sacked. The fans actually wanted Yems, he was doing well, Wagmi sacked him. Young was doing well, had the players playing for him, got the fans on board....Wagmi sacked him. Etherington has had 3 games, the fans aren't calling for his head, we can all see the problems are at board level. So please stop constantly blaming the fans. Yes, most wanted Betsy out but with good reason. He was a total disaster. An academy U23 coach with no managerial experience was not what we needed. So guess what Galley/Wagmi did? They hired another one! Now we are selling our best players to our L2 relegation rivals....its not us not giving Etherington a chance to prove himself...it's Wagmi.
All credit to you Northgate and the fans who turned up on boxing day for a game which sounds like a remake of the Hartlepool performance. I know I bang on a bit but when Etherington comments in his interview on the negativity of the fans in only his third game I do wonder why everybody is so impatient as they were with Betsy. I wasn't there as you know, so am not sure to what ME was referring but dispiriting whatever it was. From his interview, its clear he is what's on the tin - a rookie with no experience. He needs to be allowed time to make his mark now he is here and develop himself and the team. When he said he had over delegated in his interview, that's a classic indication of somebody who maybe found it easier to rely on others rather than force himself into a situation. Given a chance, I hope he will have the necessary skills to make his mark and a difference - only time will tell and I hope the supporters give him that time.
What I have highlighted in bold above re the remarks ME made about the fans is a MASSIVE OG. How to NOT get the fans on your side. Seriously ME have you not read up a bit on the history of the club and what's has been going on here lately? Rightly or wrongly you would understand how fans felt and perhaps then understand their frustrations - it's not like (and polls on this forum back this up) they are entirely blaming you anyway! there are numerous remarks about the fact that you are arguably doing the job with one hand tied behind your back, but nevertheless fans pay their money and after freezing their ******** off against Hartlepool we get a repeat dished up. My main concern is football league survival and its a constant worry that we are on a nose dive closer to that each week. I hope if you are reading this ME you get an opportunity to assemble a side capable of staying up as the way things are at the moment (yes I accept injuries and players unavailable hasn't helped nevertheless) its a complete mess and whilst Betsy was a disaster, there is strong argument I believe at least he had a plan, right from the beginning and he stuck with it. I'm not sure you have one ME and when things don't work out I have yet to see plan B.
The Betsy plan was all wrong, a disaster unfolding but he believed in it. T least I can respect that he had a plan and believed in it and tried to deliver it. Unfortunately he needed to see the plan wasn't worked much sooner and because he didn't or refused to re-set sail in a different direction it cist him his job. Your post-match interview ME looked like you and George needed therapy for depression! Yeah I get it we are all unhappy and a defeat and all that but there was little if any optimism and yet is fans will still be there at Stevenage and beyond because players, managers, coaches, owners come and go but the fans remain. That said, despite slight upturn in attendances this season, not many are staying until the end, clearly fed up with what's being served up.
The main reason we are doing badly is twofold (in my opinion).
Our summer business was very poor. Although we signed some decent players there was only one player signed in a position/role we needed strengthening and he was a loanee. I will include Betsy in this group as honestly believe he was a poor signing.
As an aside to this I still don't know if the sacking/paying off of Yems was justified. That contributed to a bad start for wagmi with fans distrustful and that must rub off on the players.
The injuries to players has been horrendous. Count up the times we've actually managed to get a first choice team on the pitch? Why have we had so many injuries I don't know but it needs addressing. This happened after we got "top quality" coaches in.
The confidence of the team is now shot. Etherington and Davies are charged with turning this around. My advice to them is simple. Pick what YOU consider to be your best team and go for it. Shot for a Lion or shot for a Lamb. I know what my choice would be.
The main reason we are doing badly is twofold (in my opinion).
Our summer business was very poor. Although we signed some decent players there was only one player signed in a position/role we needed strengthening and he was a loanee. I will include Betsy in this group as honestly believe he was a poor signing.
As an aside to this I still don't know if the sacking/paying off of Yems was justified. That contributed to a bad start for wagmi with fans distrustful and that must rub off on the players.
The injuries to players has been horrendous. Count up the times we've actually managed to get a first choice team on the pitch? Why have we had so many injuries I don't know but it needs addressing. This happened after we got "top quality" coaches in.
The confidence of the team is now shot. Etherington and Davies are charged with turning this around. My advice to them is simple. Pick what YOU consider to be your best team and go for it. Shot for a Lion or shot for a Lamb. I know what my choice would be.
Jim Baker
Training facilities cant have helped but the club has addressed this. I don't buy this all these injuries as Yems would use this 'excuse' at times yet at times he also produced results. A lot of hard work went into the results too - thanks John. Clubs always have injuries, players suspended etc., clearly what has been shown is the depth of our squad despite high numbers is really poor.
Post by broadfielddave on Dec 28, 2022 17:55:07 GMT
Bit of an essay this, so be warned, but I've had a go at identifying why we've become such a terrible shower of uselessness.
Injuries/absences - Has already been mentioned and yes, it is a tiresome "excuse" but it's also quite simply a fact. It hasn't just been the number of injuries, but our curse seems to be who is getting injured, basically anyone who is vital to the way we play. Lynch is our best defender by a country mile, but seems to be unavailable far more often than not, Conroy was a big signing who has barely played since the first month or so, we had Addai, who was signed to be our second or even third choice keeper, in goal for pretty much the first quarter of the campaign, Tsaroulla didn't come back until fairly recently, Francomb has missed tons of games, Balagizi ditto after his bright start, then just as we were hitting form we lost Nichols to weird transfer nonsense and Nadesan to injury. Basically anyone with even an ounce of importance to our team has missed a decent number of games, which is especially difficult to manage when you have such a thin squad in terms of quality.
Signings - Speaking of which, I have no idea what our transfer strategy was supposed to be in the summer, but when it started with Telford, Balagizi and Conroy, it looked promising. Then Balcombe aside, all other signings were essentially just for the B team, which no longer exists, leaving us with a squad filled with players who aren't really good enough for L2 football, but who are now having to play important roles for us. We seem to have just gone for quantity over quality, almost prioritising the B team, which looks even dumber now. I often wonder what Telford thinks of all this. Granted, he hasn't exactly pulled up any trees himself, but when he signed it all sounded very much like he'd been sold a vision that he would be the first of many huge signings intended to fast-track us to L1. Conroy was a decent get but not exactly a game changer, so Telford really was the only one. He seems to enjoy being among the lads, but from a football perspective, he must be absolutely kicking himself for coming here.
Midfield - I feel like a dog with a bone on this matter, but until it changes I can't drop it. It is where almost all of our battles are lost. The regularity with which average sides completely play us off the park in the middle is supremely annoying. Jack Powell seems like a lovely guy, but I can't get my head around how highly he seems to be rated by managers and team-mates. He's capable of highlight moments, like his Swindon goal, but Monday was the perfect microcosm of his time here for me. Maybe two or three pretty passes but spent about 80% of the game giving the ball to the nearest Sutton player. He reminds me so much of Josh Payne, which is not particularly a compliment. Hess started well here but everything just bypasses him now, I can't recall thinking he had a good game since about March. Jenks has looked decent in spells but another who seems to get injured at the drop of a hat, and Wells has looked OK but is one of those who clearly wasn't signed to be a regular at this level. Balagizi is class but is best suited getting forward and needs much better support behind him.
Managers - While changes needed to be made, having three different managers in such a short space of time couldn't have been easy for the players. Betsy very much had his ways, which the players were exposed to in the summer, then before you knew it they were listening to Lewis, who had a completely different vision, and now ME, who again seems very different. You hope that if Etherington gets time, eventually things will click because changing the manager every 2 months won't ever work, regardless of who you bring in. It is certainly too early to judge him, but at the same time, Hartlepool and Sutton were probably both as bad as anything we saw under Betsy.
Fans - I will caveat this by saying I am very much included, I was there on Monday and didn't exactly try and get any chants going, but it was almost eerily quiet. Understandable given the steaming pile of performance served up, but it can't be easy for the players when they're struggling in front of complete silence. I don't expect that to change while we're rubbish, and I think we all saw under the brief flurry when Lewis took charge that it only takes a slight upturn and we'll all get behind the team again, but I do wonder how much one contributes to the other. Sooner or later we might have to just take it on ourselves to provide more/some vocal support, even if we don't feel the performances deserve it.
In conclusion, I agree with Francomb's recent assessment that the main problem is that the squad just simply isn't good enough, while the majority of players who are seem to be injured more often than not. Some smart signings in January, some time for the players to train at our proper training site with Etherington and Davies and a bit/lot more luck with injuries and I don't see why things can't turn around in the second half of the season. While relegation is a fear, you have to remember just how terrible other teams are as well, though Gillingham just got a bit better today thanks to us.
Let's just stumble to the end of the season, make sure we just stay up somehow, learn (a lot of) lessons and go again next year.
Bit of an essay this, so be warned, but I've had a go at identifying why we've become such a terrible shower of uselessness.
Injuries/absences - Has already been mentioned and yes, it is a tiresome "excuse" but it's also quite simply a fact. It hasn't just been the number of injuries, but our curse seems to be who is getting injured, basically anyone who is vital to the way we play. Lynch is our best defender by a country mile, but seems to be unavailable far more often than not, Conroy was a big signing who has barely played since the first month or so, we had Addai, who was signed to be our second or even third choice keeper, in goal for pretty much the first quarter of the campaign, Tsaroulla didn't come back until fairly recently, Francomb has missed tons of games, Balagizi ditto after his bright start, then just as we were hitting form we lost Nichols to weird transfer nonsense and Nadesan to injury. Basically anyone with even an ounce of importance to our team has missed a decent number of games, which is especially difficult to manage when you have such a thin squad in terms of quality.
Signings - Speaking of which, I have no idea what our transfer strategy was supposed to be in the summer, but when it started with Telford, Balagizi and Conroy, it looked promising. Then Balcombe aside, all other signings were essentially just for the B team, which no longer exists, leaving us with a squad filled with players who aren't really good enough for L2 football, but who are now having to play important roles for us. We seem to have just gone for quantity over quality, almost prioritising the B team, which looks even dumber now. I often wonder what Telford thinks of all this. Granted, he hasn't exactly pulled up any trees himself, but when he signed it all sounded very much like he'd been sold a vision that he would be the first of many huge signings intended to fast-track us to L1. Conroy was a decent get but not exactly a game changer, so Telford really was the only one. He seems to enjoy being among the lads, but from a football perspective, he must be absolutely kicking himself for coming here.
Midfield - I feel like a dog with a bone on this matter, but until it changes I can't drop it. It is where almost all of our battles are lost. The regularity with which average sides completely play us off the park in the middle is supremely annoying. Jack Powell seems like a lovely guy, but I can't get my head around how highly he seems to be rated by managers and team-mates. He's capable of highlight moments, like his Swindon goal, but Monday was the perfect microcosm of his time here for me. Maybe two or three pretty passes but spent about 80% of the game giving the ball to the nearest Sutton player. He reminds me so much of Josh Payne, which is not particularly a compliment. Hess started well here but everything just bypasses him now, I can't recall thinking he had a good game since about March. Jenks has looked decent in spells but another who seems to get injured at the drop of a hat, and Wells has looked OK but is one of those who clearly wasn't signed to be a regular at this level. Balagizi is class but is best suited getting forward and needs much better support behind him.
Managers - While changes needed to be made, having three different managers in such a short space of time couldn't have been easy for the players. Betsy very much had his ways, which the players were exposed to in the summer, then before you knew it they were listening to Lewis, who had a completely different vision, and now ME, who again seems very different. You hope that if Etherington gets time, eventually things will click because changing the manager every 2 months won't ever work, regardless of who you bring in. It is certainly too early to judge him, but at the same time, Hartlepool and Sutton were probably both as bad as anything we saw under Betsy.
Fans - I will caveat this by saying I am very much included, I was there on Monday and didn't exactly try and get any chants going, but it was almost eerily quiet. Understandable given the steaming pile of performance served up, but it can't be easy for the players when they're struggling in front of complete silence. I don't expect that to change while we're rubbish, and I think we all saw under the brief flurry when Lewis took charge that it only takes a slight upturn and we'll all get behind the team again, but I do wonder how much one contributes to the other. Sooner or later we might have to just take it on ourselves to provide more/some vocal support, even if we don't feel the performances deserve it.
In conclusion, I agree with Francomb's recent assessment that the main problem is that the squad just simply isn't good enough, while the majority of players who are seem to be injured more often than not. Some smart signings in January, some time for the players to train at our proper training site with Etherington and Davies and a bit/lot more luck with injuries and I don't see why things can't turn around in the second half of the season. While relegation is a fear, you have to remember just how terrible other teams are as well, though Gillingham just got a bit better today thanks to us.
Let's just stumble to the end of the season, make sure we just stay up somehow, learn (a lot of) lessons and go again next year.
Up the Reds
I've been saying to people that the main reason why I believe Telford hasn't got going is because of the issue you've mentioned about the midfield. Powell off the pitch is a top lad but he's a player that has about 1 good game in 10 which shows we need to find someone better and more consistent next month, and Hessenthaler has been poor all season and one I feel we could do with moving on really. The stats do indicate that whenever Lynch plays the results are a lot better than he's unavailable and whenever he has been involved the team looks a lot better defensively.
The main reason we are doing badly is twofold (in my opinion).
Our summer business was very poor. Although we signed some decent players there was only one player signed in a position/role we needed strengthening and he was a loanee. I will include Betsy in this group as honestly believe he was a poor signing.
As an aside to this I still don't know if the sacking/paying off of Yems was justified. That contributed to a bad start for wagmi with fans distrustful and that must rub off on the players.
The injuries to players has been horrendous. Count up the times we've actually managed to get a first choice team on the pitch? Why have we had so many injuries I don't know but it needs addressing. This happened after we got "top quality" coaches in.
The confidence of the team is now shot. Etherington and Davies are charged with turning this around. My advice to them is simple. Pick what YOU consider to be your best team and go for it. Shot for a Lion or shot for a Lamb. I know what my choice would be.
Jim Baker
Yems is still being investigated by the authorities, so that was out of WAGMI's control in fairness to them. The players' unhappiness I feel is a lot more at the board/management's decisions in the market, evident by Kwesi Appiah's tweet earlier today. They also lost confidence in Betsy pretty early on